New driving licence plans provoke huge response from readers

News stories about young drivers, particularly those concerning insurance costs or road crashes, are always huge talking points. Whether you are a young driver or a parent of one, the likelihood is you’ll have something to say.

But the response we received following an article in the last Confused.com newsletter was unprecedented.

I reported that road safety charity Brake had announced proposals for a graduated driving licence, and that it was lobbying the government in a bid to cut road deaths among young and new drivers.

I expected a few emails and a bit of a response but what I got was: more than 200 emails; over 300 comments on the article; and close to 40,000 views on the You Tube video that accompanied the piece.

All of which clearly goes to show the strength of feeling surrounding this highly emotive subject.

I had emails from bereaved parents, who fully supported Brake’s suggestions. I had emails from disgruntled young drivers, slamming the “draconian” proposals. I had emails from driving instructors, motor industry professionals and people overseas, including Canada and New Zealand.

For those who didn’t read the original, here’s what Brake is proposing in a nutshell.

They want to see a “graduated driving licence”, which would compel new drivers to undergo a minimum learning period of one year before taking a driving test. Once passed, the novice driver would be allowed to drive unsupervised but would have restrictions on their licence for a minimum of two years.

Other key components include: 

• Restrictions on the time of day that young drivers can drive
• Giving young drivers a lower alcohol limit
• Restricting them from carrying young passengers
• Banning motorway driving in the first year after the test
• A second driving test at the end of the two-year period to help ensure safe driving on all types of roads.

Overall the response was mixed – some fully support the campaign, others think it’s an outrageous infringement on people’s right to use our roads.

Other people had their own suggestions. Most frequently people said that restricting the engine size of the vehicles young drivers can use was the way forward, in a similar way to how motorbike licensing works.

All good in theory, some others said, but you only have to go 40 mph to kill yourself behind the wheel, they pointed out.

As well as response from readers other figures in the motoring world pitched in.

Nigel Lacy, co-founder of Young Marmalade, a young driver-specific insurance product, said: “The problem with this sort of graduated licensing is that it only really hurts young drivers who are driving in the correct manner and not those responsible for the majority of accidents.”

Robert Gifford, from the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety said the proposals “offer a way forward for this apparently intractable [young people involved in road deaths] problem. I hope that the Government will give them the serious consideration they deserve.”

But the Transport Minister, Mike Penning, the person Brake will ultimately need to convince if their proposals are ever to take effect, said that although he wasn’t 100 per cent convinced about the graduated licence, he “fully support the UN Decade of Action (which coincides with Brake’s campaign) and will be publishing a new strategic framework for road safety, setting out our vision for further reducing deaths and injuries on Britain's roads.”

So it seems like everyone is agreed: something needs to be done to make our roads safer. But we’re still not sure what the solution is...

Here is a selection from the hundreds of comments you’ve sent us on this subject.

 “Lets face it the most dangerous people on the road are those that don't bother taking a test and drive without insurance.”

 “This is just another of this barmy nanny state ideas I have been driving for 37 yrs taught young people to drive in both day time and at night and not one has had the need of being in by 11pm or being told whom to carry, but out of peoples lives let them learn by there own experiences, drivers of all ages make mistakes this the thin edge of the wedge.”

 “Is this not a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted? How would the new proposals be policed, given that police numbers are being cut by the very government who will have to implement these changes?”

 “It is about time! Motorcyclists have been subject to a similar regime for years.”

 “What a  fantastic idea! I am 41 and have been driving since 1991. In that time I have been involved in 3 accidents - all were shunts from behind, so I was not at fault in any of them. The latest shunt was September 2010, while I was stationary at a crossing.  Before the shunt my insurance was £240 a year. It has now gone up to £463! And for a crash that wasn't my fault! Incidentally, all the shunts were performed by male drivers. So I feel even more annoyed that insurance costs have soared for women drivers.”

Comments

[stevie c]

The usual claptrap from the nanny state. Yes, ensure reasonable training is given but stop penalising the sensible ones. To resrict usage to only underpowered cars is dangerous - I've been in a situation where I was almost squashed due to the inability to accelerate out of a dangerous situation.
Be sensible!

[David Ackroyd]

interesting thoughts. But the young will not see it as a good idea.
I suggest what I did for my son after his first crunch 10 weeks after his test.
I enrolled him on an Advanced Motorists Course. About £130 for as many lessons as it takes to pass the test.
I now have a good driver who enjoyed the course.
Do not ban things like motorways, times they can drive etc. -- TEACH them to use them. The young enjoy it so they co operate.
p.s. After passing my test in 1963 I am now doing my advanced driving course and test. Great fun!!!

[stuart]

i think its a good idea sort these boy racers out hope they get it through but there ought to be another section on their licences to learn some manners when driving i have a son of my own these measures would increase his likelehood of surviving bring it in as soon as possible government

[tahrey]

I love the one about banning them from motorways for the first year ... never mind that they're the easiest type of road to master (for some reason there's a whole undeserved mythos of difficulty and fear, probably because of the pea-souper fog deaths in the first few years after the M1 opened in the 60s) - and are by far and away the SAFEST type of road to travel on. You want to cut deaths? Make motorway lessons compulsory so they get experience of it and are far more familiar, comfortable and willing to use them, rather than going by far more hazardous surface streets. Certainly don't ban P-platers from the motorways.

Plus they're so much quicker, even if you're in/on a slow vehicle. The difference in journey time between Birmingham and Rugby on the M6 vs the "long way round", and the quality of road engineering, is pretty stark... even on a 125cc bike that struggles to reach 70 most days.

The time of day and carrying young passengers thing would have been a massive blow to keeping my family together after my parents separated back when I was 17-18, and I found myself ferrying me & my younger brother to and from my Dads - in the countryside around Oakham, driving to/from Birmingham - in my mum's car, often getting back at around midnight because of the distance and the limited times available once our being able to have the car, and his being at home were all synched up.

I actually got stopped once on the way back. Breathalysed. Totally clean. Except for the true idiots, I'd put money on a random sample of 100 newly-passed kids having a far safer attitude towards alcohol and driving than a similar survey of their parents' generation. Maybe the limit could be lowered to weed out the bad apples, but I doubt it would have any real effect; if you're going to drink and drive, you're likely going to be over the current limit as much as a lower one. And is this a suggestion that an older person, with an intrinsically less healthy body system, is somehow better at holding their drink - or at least, a single pint of Stella which is what the current limit equates to - than a fighting fit late-teenager (or any random person who's just passed their test)? Hmm.

Let's see the problems I had when being a fresh faced driver...

Misjudging the speed I could take a right hand turn at traffic lights, in the wet, with oil on the road, and adverse camber on the exit. Slithered into a kerb at somewhere south of 20mph and shredded a tyre. Expensive learning experience, but not one that could be given to me either whilst learning, or in a probationary period, or in a capacity/power/speed limited car without benefit of a (scandinavian driver training style) skidpan.

Misjudged the speed I could safely come off onto a sliproad and up to a signalised roundabout. Left a nice 50m long trail of rubber out in front of a load of trucks and almost into the facing armco, as my light went red and just before theirs went green. Was probably only off by 10mph, and it was a rotten, poorly signed island, but I've still learned to be a lot more cautious in unfamiliar situations. Diagnosis: youthful overexuberance only defused by getting the relevant experience.
Oh, and that was coming off the A50 in broad daylight, with a crowd of friends in the car who already thought I was going a bit too quick (late for an event) and had me crawling the rest of the way to our destination. So banning from night time, motorways, or a carful of hooting speed-freak neds wouldn't have helped.

Pranging the door with a very solid tree branch whilst trying to negotiate a gravelly, icy, very tight car park at about 2mph. Nothing could have saved that one.

Similarly knackering a bumper or two on very poorly placed, out-of-eyeline bollards in other car parks. I'm now super paranoid about them these days and always scope what's behind me very carefully. It's one thing smacking into a 2ft high bit of concrete that some idiot planner thought would be a good thing to place on the inside of a tight corner, quite another if said speed bump turns out to be a wandering toddler...
Things that could've saved my skin there...? Very little. Nothing I'd been taught or come across prepared me.

Since then I've only had one real at-fault accident, again caused by inexperience: first time out on my own in a windowless van, I reversed into a car. Just. Was an inch off my line and scraped a neighbour's door. All others before and since have been other people smashing into me because, literally, they weren't looking where they were going and didn't see my vehicle or failed to stop where they should. And oddly, all but one came from the left, whether they were going forwards or backwards, or if i was in a car or on my bike, moving or parked, sat inside or walking towards. I wonder if there's anything in that?

Anyway.

Really, what are they hoping to achieve by restricting new drivers from getting the relevant experience, particularly if it's intrinsically, potentially harmful experience that will disavow them of bad habits? You're just putting off the inevitable. What you want instead is better training. Even as tough as they supposedly are, our driving and riding tests are a joke. Some fairly irrelevant things are assessed very strictly, and a pile of other bad habit-formers are totally ignored.

And you should see the mess the EU are set to make of the motorcycle tests in coming years, it's going to get a hell of a lot harder, more expensive and complicated to get a license to ride anything beyond a moped, but there's not a great deal of focus on actually drilling good riding skills (particularly dealing with bad weather situations or sudden hazards like someone pulling out into the way) into people or assessing whether they're truly ready to be let out by themselves. It's passive safety by obstruction - i.e. making it much harder for people to start riding or driving in the first place, or making it less attractive because of the reduced usefulness after going to all the effort and expense - rather than actively improving the standards of training, then holding the trainees to said standards.

New drivers aren't really worse because they're younger, it's just because they're green... and most new test passers tend to be young.

Straw poll of people of my generation, and the one immediately following it, vs the ones that came before, and I'd probably feel a lot safer riding with the younger lot. Even though they're still patchy, the training and test standards ARE higher than they used to be, and they've had less time to get sloppy, become filled with apathy etc. Male or female doesn't even enter into it... sooner be in the (rear) passenger seat of a similar-or-younger female friend (and her boyfriend in the front ;) than riding with my mum, tell you what.

[Dan Shipman]

I'm gonna be blunt, I'm a young driver and I shunted a woman a while ago. From an insurance perspective it really didn't go up that much because I already pay a bomb. Add to that I'm driving a 1.5 diesel I can honestly say none of that crap would have stopped my accident. It was by myself at 9am on an a road coming up to a roundabout.

One of the main problems young drivers have is a lack of experience, of that we all agree, so why not, like flying a plane, have a required number of hours instead of a test somebody could fluke?

And I know people are trying to reduce young driver accidents, but I have nearly caused accidents avoiding businessmen who think they own the road. Perhaps an interim assessment every 15 years or so to help tackle road deaths from both ends?

I agree there's a problem, but those restrictions won't help. The sort of young person who causes a death on the road will take a chance going out after 11 and will probably be drunk whilst doing it, but he won't get caught. I will, I'll get caught doing 31 in a 30 by a camera when nobody's life is, or ever was at risk

[christmasevebaby]

I think its unfair young drivers are getting told they need more driver training, when clearly 3/4 of accidents are NOT caused by young people.
I think young people here are being very stereotyped and people aren't paying attention to the amount of sensible young drivers out there. Not only this, but there are a lot of drivers who have had their licence for years, and while experienced, are not aware of new legislation changes. In my opinion, much older drivers are as much of a hazard as young drivers!
I do believe motorways and a variety of driving situations should be added to the test, like making the Pass Plus criteria compulsory. I took the Pass Plus course and a lot of it is never mentioned in normal driving lessons so this would be beneficial.
I think this extended process will just put more people off learning to drive, if you have to learn for 3 years imagine the costs!
Lets face it, every driver on the road could arguably pose a risk in one way or another, young drivers are going to have to learn from experience how to manage the roads alone, whether its sooner or later!

[Mke B]

Most of what is written is boulder crap, a polite term, the main problems with all of this is the roads themselves and pedestrians. The roads are poorly designed for the traffice they now take, badly lit, badly sign posted and badly regulated, speed cameras and safety signs being more a distraction than of any real use.
The pedestrian thing, we have not yet got the message even though the car has been around for longer than people, walk in the road where there is not a crossing and you stand a reasonable chance of being run over.
Make our roads work for the traffic they take and stop hanging the motorist for using the roads.

[John Collins]

I remember when fatal vehicular accidents could result in the death penalty or a charge of manslaughter. There is nothing like a big stick to aid the concentration; there is not enough resonsibility!

[c mearns]

regardless of what they bring in , the insurance company always wins and they are the biggest danger to drivers on the road because of their hyped up charges and the small print......don,t even get me started on that and tax

[Nancy Blake]

The Under17 Car Club teaches children from the age of 12 off-road, under tightly controlled conditions, with practical and theory exams along the way. Result - less than half the average number of first-year-after passing the test accidents/convictions. Kids should be allowed to get their Learner's permits at 16 and be required to have at least 100 hours of practical experience during that year before being able to take the test at 17. Insurers should also be allowed to charge insurance on the basis of probability of accidents if not gender some other form of grouping. These phenomenal high charges just encourage the more reckless (and the not-from-rich-family) young people to risk driving without insurance. Or keeps them off the roads until they've forgotten how to drive but are old enough to afford insurance.

[G.A.Clark]

I believe that all the restrictions are great, why don't we now suggest through some other idiotic government body that we police these news laws by taking all the current officers off the streets and putting them into cars. After all we cannot have drivers running around breaking all these laws, when there are innocent burglars, muggers, murderers and drug dealers roaming our street, can we?. Really what are we paying this government millions of pounds a day in taxes to do.

[Nigel]

How about making it illegal for anyone to use an iPod or mobile phone when crossing or near a road. Make it ilegal for cyclists especially to have iPods or similar. Most of my near misses have been with this sort of person not a motorist. If we really want sensible a young driver should have an unmodified car of say up to 1000cc. No alloy wheels, go faster stripes etc. This encourages competition racing. The Cooperative Bank is introducing young drivers policies where a black box is fitted to monitor behaviour patterns. Go outside the limits and the insurance is cancelled. Great for good drivers and for the bad ones a record of refusal of insurance. Costly. But there is one thing the police cannot check. The car can be taxed, Insured, MOT'd but they cannot check who is driving .

[r siddique]

i think rather than implementing these new laws, we should catch more and more speedy drivers,fine them heavily, day in day out, and publish the figures on telly and newspapers monthly or quarterly. drink driving should not be tolerated at all, no insurance, ban them from driving for 2 years or so. stricter punishment should do the trick. spare the young drivers who drive very carefully and punish the offenders.

[David C]

"all were shunts from behind, so I was not at fault in any of them."
Really???
Or is this one of those drivers who start to move at a junction and then stop, even though there was plenty of space to join the traffic flow safely (and perhaps the following vehicle too)?

[Willi K]

Not sure if it's only the novices. Going by personal experience, my most 'challenging' driving happened a few years after having passed the test, and how do you reach those drivers? However, what I would fully endorse is a licence system like with HGVs where you have to take the test in the type of vehicle you want to drive. That would get a lot of unsure drivers into more appropriate cars, I'm sure.

[Kijikiji]

I agree with some points of Brakes proposals, but I also think that a max engine size for new drivers should also be introduced, plus a zero alcohol level for the first 2 years of driving. A comment was left about the state of the roads and padestrians causing accidents, this is fair enough, but what about cyclists. They too can be the cause of major accidents, nearly always coming off worse, yet they have no insurance, pay no road tax, yet on some roads have their own designated lane. Maybe if they contributed towards the upkeep of the roads and paid insurance they would be a little more careful on the roads.

[Paul Toplis]

Why not have something along the lines of the motorcycle licence, restrict newly passed drivers to limited power and weight for the first 2 years. Maybe a 2nd tougher test after 2 years to be allowed to drive any vehicle up to 3.5t. Tackle the boy racer culture and teach them what good driving really is.

[Martin G]

Oh great, I live in a rural part of Somerset, bus coverage poor and getting worse with the cuts. My son passed his test a year ago so he could get to work as a apprentice footballer, odd times and evening training. If this scatter brained idea was to become law it would be up to dads/mums taxi service again. Just what you want when you have forked out 500 quid for lessons 100 for the test and 2000 on insurance. What a crap idea, they are allowed to vote, but can't drive at night or on motorways, take another test after a year- another £50. What a way to treat our youngsters. My younger son will be starting to learn this year, I hope he gets his licence before these changes get agreed.

[Julie Peirson]

All comments are made from our own experiences, none of us really learn to drive until after we pass our test, one of the most straight forward ways I think to not neccesarily stop good young drivers is for the driving age to rise from 17/18 to 21, by then a lot of youngsters are more sensible, and maybe the driving test could consist of a couple of videos to watch to show what could happen when inexperience or speed is involved.

[Claire]

While I can admit that i am a 'young driver' (20years old and driving for 1 year) I definitely agree that younger driver are being marginalised unfairly in a bid to ignore the bigger issue. I have been in 1 accident when I was a learner driver when I hesitated at a roundabout and someone hit me from behind, they did not stop and from what I could see was not a young driver and clearly not insured.
I also believe that while they might implement legislation for young drivers for a minimum hours learning or graduated learning - what about those older generation that have NEVER taken a test, or did back in the 1940-1950's? Surely road legislation has changed since then as well as not knowing what the national speed limit is on different roads! The amount of times i have (and im sure many of you have as well) been stuck being some 'old biddy' (excuse my slang) going at 40mph in a 60 zone or even 50mph when it is 70 on a duel carriageway! This is what causes accidents because it forces people to get angry, frustrated and take risks of overtaking the said blissfully ignorant driver. Not those who have taken a test or know the rules of the road!

Saying that I do actually support the idea of having more than 10 lessons and taking 1 test to gain a full driving licence UNLESS previous experience is proven. I spent from 17-19 learning to drive with various teachers (some who were useless!) before I passed (first time). Another suggestion would be lower to amount of minors you can get before you fail your test!

How can they possibly blame one minority group solely on accidents caused when they are the ones cutting costs by removing speed reducing incentives like speed cameras?

Try looking at the older generation that have no knowledge of road safety and all they have to do is sign a piece of paper saying that they can see! Which they could get someone else to sign for them anyway!

[Martin]

As a teenager you are 10 times more likely to be involved in a car crash than you are between the ages of 40 and 50. This is partly due to lack of experience but also because of attitudes to safety. Teenagers are thought to be more likely to have a car accident than any other group other than the over 85s.I have driven thirty years without an accident - my son (16) last week got into a car with a friend who had been driving for just six weeks and guess what ... they had a MAJOR ACCIDENT AND WROTE OFF THE CAR. So much crap posted on this site from young people who have had numerous accidents which "aren't their fault". Learn to drive defensively, seek alternative courses from every situation, never drive into danger, be aware of the vehicles around and behind you at all times and drive within your ability. You won't have accidents. Above all avoid arrogance. I still make mistakes, every driver does -I probably make more now I am older, but if you are on the limit when you make one...

[Jones]

Interesting to read all the comments posted on the same day a 40+ year old driver overtook me on a blind bend and minutes later as he attempted to overtake another 2 cars, he forced a young male driver off the road and into a bus stop layby to avoid a head on collision!!

I too live in a rural area with little to no public transport between 7pm - 7am and unreliable/ sparse the rest of the time so a car is essential and I dont relish the thought of going to work all day then being a taxi service to an ADULT offspring, but with spiralling costs and suggestions that will inevitably increase the cost of motoring I see little option. (Surely I would be more of a risk driving when im tired than he would be wide awake?)

As inexperience (when driving without instructor/ parent) seems to feature so much in these accidents, doesnt prolonging the tests, increasing age limit, restricting engine size etc merely postpone the alleged "risky age" till such time the restrictions are lifted?

[Bob Brown]

Sorry to be blunt, but I feel that this another example of a vocal pressure group seeking to blame 'somebody or something else' for their own failings as parents.

In this case the 'system', so they want Parliament to impose the rules/restrictions they failed to apply to their children with tragic results. If they are successful they will be assured that 'it was not their fault'.

I know that these comments will be unwelcome but people must accept that they are responsible for looking after themselves and there own.

[Supra Strapped NS]

Every dog has his day.

[B.Coulthard]

This is just a smoke screen for raising revenue!!! It all boils down to yet again the goverment getting more money out of us!!!!!!!! What will they come up with next. I have been driving since I was 17 and now 61. I have driven in this country and SA. My three children still alive and well, also I drive my grandaughter around. I have always driven very defensively. The ammount of cars we have on the road I think we all do a great job.